I do remember the Pill Hill Times (which, I believe, was the clincher for open editor position at Warfields)
Now, more importantly, I’ve always wondered if the lower positioned urinal in, obviously, men’s public restrooms is for short people or those with longer anatomy 🤷🏻♂️??
I have to note your repetitive redundancy: “A posthumous exhibition of the works of the late Ruth Asawa.” Or do the terms cancel each other out and she is still alive?
I would begin by noting that, in its exquisite young life, MT has already grappled twice with its creator's categorical music prejudices, the first being country music in Feb. Can we schedule opera for early June, hiphop for Sept., etc.? Here, I think we have a conflation problem. Are we talking about musicals or the songs in musicals? When people say they don't like musicals and use words like "contrived," they tend to mean they don't like the idea of someone pseudo-spontaneously bursting into song -- as opposed to the songs themselves. It's a little unclear to me where you are on this, so let's pursue it. "Shall We Dance" is a song from a musical. Here's Loston Harris and some cats playing it out of context.
It's a great song. And it's worth noting that for decades "American popular music" and "show tunes," although not exactly the same thing, overlapped a lot. And it was sometimes hard to tell -- as it is with country music -- what belongs in the category and what doesn't.
Let's take another terpsichorean-themed tune, "I Won't Dance." Kern, Hammerstein and Harbach write the song for a play called "3 Sisters," which opens in London in 1934 and bombs (despite some splashy cast members). Never makes it to Broadway. But Hollywood is very much in the movie musical business, so, by 1935, it has drifted there and been inserted into the movie version of "Roberta," which as already been a Broadway show (numbering Bob Hope, Fred MacMurray and Sydney Greenstreet among its cast, FFS!). For the movie, the great Dorothy Fields tunes up the lyrics and Jimmy McHugh does something that gets him the fifth song credit. Fields gives us the Sondheim-worthy rhyme, "But heaven rest us / I'm not asbestos." Astaire and Rogers sing it in he movie but not terribly well. Is it a song from a musical or just a good song? It's 91 years old. People record it all the time, especially people looking for duets. Bennett and Gaga did it. Elling and McKellar did in 2023. Here is an MT nightmare: a country singer covering a show tune (with Diana Krall).
Think about a song you like from right now. What are the chances interest in it will survive for 90 years?
Lastly (I promise) let's look at the other objection -- people bursting into song. And, I grant you, in some cases, skeptics wll have a problem on both ends. It might be a problem for a woman to suddenly start singing, "I'm as corny as Kansas in August" and the song itself may also grate. But songs also benefit from their place in the musical. Nancy Lamott singing "I Have Dreamed" will tear your heart out, of course, but even a couple of high school kids in the school production of "The King and I" could possibly touch you with that song in its context.
Sondheim is special because so many of his songs were cut from musicals and then survived as revue pieces. "Marry Me a Little" comes to mind. There's a song cut from "...Forum" that really gets me. It's mostly a comic song, but I also find it wrenching. But it needs its context, as you will see here. Hopefully Okrent reads this far.
Colin, Thanks for the great feedback and tutorial. I'll get to work. (Would you consider writing a guest column next week?) I think you've hit the nail on the head with your opening question about "conflation" -- "Are we talking about musicals or the songs in musicals?" Until my recent partial conversion, it had been the "pseudo-spontaneously bursting into song" that bothered me. Taken by themselves, the songs often pleased me. In fact, a few years ago, some Sondheim fans/friends took me to a Sondheim revue (I forget the name) consisting of songs that never made it into his shows, and I liked it quite a bit. One line I recall: "An imitation Hitler but with littler charm." Thanks again for adding perspective and suggesting some leads. Scott
Always a pleasure to meander with you Scott. When I attend Wisconsin Badger football games in Madison we relieve ourselves in a giant tub, not a urinal. No splash, just a lot of elbows and wieners.
Chris, Thanks as always for reading -- and this time for the lovely image you've conjured of halftime at Camp Randall Stadium. The WATERLOO research team is wasting so much time and money on this problem instead of just proposing troughs. Also, see the other comment below, from Ben DuBois, about the fake fly.
With your shameless questioning of Il Divino's word choice you have deeply offended the gods of musical theater. Your punishment is to sit through three continuous performances of Kinky Boots.
Regarding your piece about musicals. Let's not forget the power of the words augmented by the emotion of the music. In that regard another member of the Pill Hill Gang and a woman, our now departed friend Denise would say that the 2 greatest musicals are :
Wizard of Oz
Wicked.
The power of the lyrics played at her funeral captures how important friendship is in our lives but pales when read on the page without music:
( For Good)
It well may be
That we may never meet again
In this lifetime
So let me say before we part
So much of me
Is made of what I learn from you
You’ll be with me
Like a handprint on my heart
And now whatever way our stories
end I have been changed for the good.
--------
So as to not end on a sad note, another solution to one of the world's greatest unsolved problems: urinal spillage, which, let me correct you has no bacteria unless you have a UTI. (Though this could be proven or disproven with Your analysis.)
Dear Benjy from Baltimore. (Do you know Ed from Reisterstown, by any chance?)
Thanks for reading -- and for your heartwarming comments about our dear friend Denise. I think you hit the nail on the head (and it will help me open my mind some more) when you write, "Let's not forget the power of the words augmented by the emotion of the music." Questions of "contrivance" aside, that's what musical theater can do, I now appreciate.
As for your analysis of my urinalysis story, thanks for that feedback as well. I now recall the Washington Post news you cite, about reducing urinal spillage by etching realistic images of flies near the drain, promoting better aim. Why are these guys from the University of WATERLOO wasting so much time and money when they could reduce spillage simply by using some fly stickers?
And finally, for now, your point about urine being sterile. I was thinking the same thing. But the Popular Science summary says the following:
"Urine is mostly sterile, but the liquid quickly becomes a breeding ground for bacteria. Meanwhile, its ammonia-laden odor frequently seeps into the ambient air. The results are urinals and floors with significantly higher bacteria concentrations compared to toilets requiring additional cleanup efforts."
I checked the actual PNAS journal article, where the authors state:
"Although mostly sterile, urine provides a fertile breeding ground for bacteria and contributes to foul odors common in public restrooms (5, 6). Aerosolized droplets can spread far, coating large areas of the floor and often the users themselves. . . . Urine splashback also poses a notable health risk to washroom occupants. The surfaces of urinals have significantly higher concentrations of bacteria than traditional toilets, with surrounding floors having the highest level (8). Ammonia levels on the floor surrounding the urinal are on the order of 100 times higher than any area near a traditional toilet—indicating significant splashback, and providing an ideal environment for the aforementioned bacterial colonies (9)."
I'm neither a scientist nor a physician, so I'm unable to expertly question this point, but there seems to be a logic to how urine can go from being sterile, as you say, to laden with bacteria. Does that make sense?
Thanks, Rick. A lovely sentiment and a reminder of how fortunate we have been. I just learned there is an "Old Friends" revival on Broadway right now, starring Bernadette Peters.
Old fashioned Grilled Cheese sandwich, white bread and American cheese, with a real chocolate milkshake at Charlesmead , sitting at the counter, is a lunchtime treat.
8 I implore you: Do not confuse this concept with the related but different Mongoose Phenomenon. And please don’t get me started on its comparison to Occam’s razor versus Hickam’s dictum. (If you’ve gotten this far, raise your hand, and I’ll send you 25 wallet cards.)
Congratulations. You're a winner. But, as requested, I won't send you 25 wallet cards for first place. By the way, second prize is 50 wallet cards. Thanks for reading so carefully.
I do remember the Pill Hill Times (which, I believe, was the clincher for open editor position at Warfields)
Now, more importantly, I’ve always wondered if the lower positioned urinal in, obviously, men’s public restrooms is for short people or those with longer anatomy 🤷🏻♂️??
Another really great issue. Well done!
I have to note your repetitive redundancy: “A posthumous exhibition of the works of the late Ruth Asawa.” Or do the terms cancel each other out and she is still alive?
Excellent catch. Thanks very much.
Best,
The Department of Redundancy Department
I would begin by noting that, in its exquisite young life, MT has already grappled twice with its creator's categorical music prejudices, the first being country music in Feb. Can we schedule opera for early June, hiphop for Sept., etc.? Here, I think we have a conflation problem. Are we talking about musicals or the songs in musicals? When people say they don't like musicals and use words like "contrived," they tend to mean they don't like the idea of someone pseudo-spontaneously bursting into song -- as opposed to the songs themselves. It's a little unclear to me where you are on this, so let's pursue it. "Shall We Dance" is a song from a musical. Here's Loston Harris and some cats playing it out of context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXlKFM2zi1E
It's a great song. And it's worth noting that for decades "American popular music" and "show tunes," although not exactly the same thing, overlapped a lot. And it was sometimes hard to tell -- as it is with country music -- what belongs in the category and what doesn't.
Let's take another terpsichorean-themed tune, "I Won't Dance." Kern, Hammerstein and Harbach write the song for a play called "3 Sisters," which opens in London in 1934 and bombs (despite some splashy cast members). Never makes it to Broadway. But Hollywood is very much in the movie musical business, so, by 1935, it has drifted there and been inserted into the movie version of "Roberta," which as already been a Broadway show (numbering Bob Hope, Fred MacMurray and Sydney Greenstreet among its cast, FFS!). For the movie, the great Dorothy Fields tunes up the lyrics and Jimmy McHugh does something that gets him the fifth song credit. Fields gives us the Sondheim-worthy rhyme, "But heaven rest us / I'm not asbestos." Astaire and Rogers sing it in he movie but not terribly well. Is it a song from a musical or just a good song? It's 91 years old. People record it all the time, especially people looking for duets. Bennett and Gaga did it. Elling and McKellar did in 2023. Here is an MT nightmare: a country singer covering a show tune (with Diana Krall).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=achkn3nBHdU&t=46s
Think about a song you like from right now. What are the chances interest in it will survive for 90 years?
Lastly (I promise) let's look at the other objection -- people bursting into song. And, I grant you, in some cases, skeptics wll have a problem on both ends. It might be a problem for a woman to suddenly start singing, "I'm as corny as Kansas in August" and the song itself may also grate. But songs also benefit from their place in the musical. Nancy Lamott singing "I Have Dreamed" will tear your heart out, of course, but even a couple of high school kids in the school production of "The King and I" could possibly touch you with that song in its context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-wHybsiC9U
Sondheim is special because so many of his songs were cut from musicals and then survived as revue pieces. "Marry Me a Little" comes to mind. There's a song cut from "...Forum" that really gets me. It's mostly a comic song, but I also find it wrenching. But it needs its context, as you will see here. Hopefully Okrent reads this far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7RWppbO2vU&t=8s
Adieu.
Colin, Thanks for the great feedback and tutorial. I'll get to work. (Would you consider writing a guest column next week?) I think you've hit the nail on the head with your opening question about "conflation" -- "Are we talking about musicals or the songs in musicals?" Until my recent partial conversion, it had been the "pseudo-spontaneously bursting into song" that bothered me. Taken by themselves, the songs often pleased me. In fact, a few years ago, some Sondheim fans/friends took me to a Sondheim revue (I forget the name) consisting of songs that never made it into his shows, and I liked it quite a bit. One line I recall: "An imitation Hitler but with littler charm." Thanks again for adding perspective and suggesting some leads. Scott
Have you watched "Schmigadoon?" The first season in particular is about this whole issue.
Always a pleasure to meander with you Scott. When I attend Wisconsin Badger football games in Madison we relieve ourselves in a giant tub, not a urinal. No splash, just a lot of elbows and wieners.
Chris, Thanks as always for reading -- and this time for the lovely image you've conjured of halftime at Camp Randall Stadium. The WATERLOO research team is wasting so much time and money on this problem instead of just proposing troughs. Also, see the other comment below, from Ben DuBois, about the fake fly.
With your shameless questioning of Il Divino's word choice you have deeply offended the gods of musical theater. Your punishment is to sit through three continuous performances of Kinky Boots.
I accept my punishment. In fact, it feels like you're letting me off easy.
Oh, I left out the "hundred" after "three."
A couple of comments Scott.
This is Benjy from Baltimore.
Regarding your piece about musicals. Let's not forget the power of the words augmented by the emotion of the music. In that regard another member of the Pill Hill Gang and a woman, our now departed friend Denise would say that the 2 greatest musicals are :
Wizard of Oz
Wicked.
The power of the lyrics played at her funeral captures how important friendship is in our lives but pales when read on the page without music:
( For Good)
It well may be
That we may never meet again
In this lifetime
So let me say before we part
So much of me
Is made of what I learn from you
You’ll be with me
Like a handprint on my heart
And now whatever way our stories
end I have been changed for the good.
--------
So as to not end on a sad note, another solution to one of the world's greatest unsolved problems: urinal spillage, which, let me correct you has no bacteria unless you have a UTI. (Though this could be proven or disproven with Your analysis.)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/09/whats-a-urinal-fly-and-what-does-it-have-to-with-winning-a-nobel-prize/
As always, a thought provoking column.
Dear Benjy from Baltimore. (Do you know Ed from Reisterstown, by any chance?)
Thanks for reading -- and for your heartwarming comments about our dear friend Denise. I think you hit the nail on the head (and it will help me open my mind some more) when you write, "Let's not forget the power of the words augmented by the emotion of the music." Questions of "contrivance" aside, that's what musical theater can do, I now appreciate.
As for your analysis of my urinalysis story, thanks for that feedback as well. I now recall the Washington Post news you cite, about reducing urinal spillage by etching realistic images of flies near the drain, promoting better aim. Why are these guys from the University of WATERLOO wasting so much time and money when they could reduce spillage simply by using some fly stickers?
And finally, for now, your point about urine being sterile. I was thinking the same thing. But the Popular Science summary says the following:
"Urine is mostly sterile, but the liquid quickly becomes a breeding ground for bacteria. Meanwhile, its ammonia-laden odor frequently seeps into the ambient air. The results are urinals and floors with significantly higher bacteria concentrations compared to toilets requiring additional cleanup efforts."
I checked the actual PNAS journal article, where the authors state:
"Although mostly sterile, urine provides a fertile breeding ground for bacteria and contributes to foul odors common in public restrooms (5, 6). Aerosolized droplets can spread far, coating large areas of the floor and often the users themselves. . . . Urine splashback also poses a notable health risk to washroom occupants. The surfaces of urinals have significantly higher concentrations of bacteria than traditional toilets, with surrounding floors having the highest level (8). Ammonia levels on the floor surrounding the urinal are on the order of 100 times higher than any area near a traditional toilet—indicating significant splashback, and providing an ideal environment for the aforementioned bacterial colonies (9)."
I'm neither a scientist nor a physician, so I'm unable to expertly question this point, but there seems to be a logic to how urine can go from being sterile, as you say, to laden with bacteria. Does that make sense?
See you on the tour.
Scott
🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️
Is it fair to say that I have effectively “fixed” the words “unbelievable, incredible, and absolutely?”
Relating to your lifetime friends from Pill Hill, these Sondheim lyrics from the song “Old Friends” (my favorite Sondheim song)
“Most friends fade
or they don't make the grade
New ones are quickly made
and in a pinch sure they'll do
But us old friend
what's to discuss old friend
Here's to us
who's like us
Damn few”
Thanks, Rick. A lovely sentiment and a reminder of how fortunate we have been. I just learned there is an "Old Friends" revival on Broadway right now, starring Bernadette Peters.
You mean Bewnadette Petews ?
Another great Meandering Sherman.
Seldom seen references to Sondheim’s incredible legacy without mentioning West Side Story.
“Hand raised”
Well done. Thanks for reading so deep!
Where shall I send the 25 wallet cards?
Old fashioned Grilled Cheese sandwich, white bread and American cheese, with a real chocolate milkshake at Charlesmead , sitting at the counter, is a lunchtime treat.
Right you are. Let's go together soon.
But don't send the wallet cards!
8 I implore you: Do not confuse this concept with the related but different Mongoose Phenomenon. And please don’t get me started on its comparison to Occam’s razor versus Hickam’s dictum. (If you’ve gotten this far, raise your hand, and I’ll send you 25 wallet cards.)
How many wallet cards do I get for discussing this with Dr. Lisa Sanders, somewhere around the 35:00 mark here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I26WtE_Ij80
Congratulations. You're a winner. But, as requested, I won't send you 25 wallet cards for first place. By the way, second prize is 50 wallet cards. Thanks for reading so carefully.
I believe the journal, although often referred to as PNAS or the Proceedings of the National
Academy is more correctly identified as Proceedings of the National
Academy of the United States of America ... Which in the post-American century is probably worth noting. Don't get me started on the "World" Series..